Round Table Review: Skarbrand & Stacking Changes

At The Table:

Hello Champions, Zerris from ThunderPals here! Welcome to the Round Table Review. For new readers, a Round Table Review is when I gather a group of Champions together to share their thoughts regarding a specific topic – generally this topic is for spoilers (*Spoiler Alert* Warband & Savagery spoiler Round Table Reviews will be next) – but today we shy away from the spoilers and will discuss some thoughts regarding the Skarbrand and Stacking changes.

If you are unfamiliar with the changes, you can find the details here. Now readers the majority opinion is clear, you can’t even hop onto facebook, reddit, discord or other social channels without seeing the overwhelming responses of relief because Skarbrand is finally “fair”. Although, I did manage to do the impossible, I found another black sheep like myself to step in the role of the dissenting opinion. We managed to get nearly 2 hours of discussions, so after cutting out a lot of stuff, you will hear opinions of the majority and dissenters, as well as a more moderate opinion regarding these changes. So readers, sit back and enjoy our Round Table Review of Skarbrand and Stacking rule changes, but before you do check our list of Champions sitting in at the table today:

  • Majority Opinion
    • Brian – the proclaimed “King of Casuals”, you can catch him streaming daily on his twitch stream — https://www.twitch.tv/vsschmidtbot
    • Shawn – a.k.a shpelley, the wizard behind the WHAOSC.com curtain; but many know him for his affinity of Ogors with really bad acid reflux
  • SWING VOTE
    • Matt – a.k.a CronikCRS, the brains behind the Black Library and the head judge for the most recent North East Circuit event
  • Dissenting Opinion
    • My fellow ThunderPal, Osh – a.k.a TPals yerTrey, the Charisma here at TPals & team Chaos player
    • Finally, I will refer to myself as Jay – but you probably know me as TPals Zerris, the ThunderPals team Mom (according to Osh)

The Q & A

What is your opinion on the Skarbrand & Stacking Changes?


Honestly, this will benefit the game going forward. It has a positive benefit, there are more players playing new things on digital.

Brian

Brian: The stacking rule is a good way to adjust certain decks. It nerfs
Gordrakk, Fist of Gork a little bit because you can’t get that initial big swing you kind of have to focus on stacking. It forces deck building toward stacking units or non-stacking units (you can build it two ways). The Skarbrand change kind of levels the field against Skarbrand decks, but 10 was too much (of a nerf). I would have preferred if they had set it to 12 and maybe lower the bonus damage to 2 instead of 3. <Osh groaned a lot at the mention of the 3 damage nerf> Honestly, this will benefit the game going further. It has a positive benefit, there are more players playing new things on digital. The physical may swing a little bit, but the physical has the sideboard that digital does not. You will maybe see Skarbrand and definitely still see Gordrakk in the physical game. Overall, this will benefit the game going forward.

Osh: If they wanted to fix Gordrakk, they should have fixed Gordrakk. They didn’t fix Gordrakk, they fixed stacking. Stacking effects more than Gordrakk, it also affects Death. Death became a little playable in set 2, I could have gotten continuity in stuff that is out, now I don’t even have enough stacking units to play a Death stacking deck. To me that sucks butt. If Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead didn’t cost so much, it may have fixed the issue. Skarbrand in my opinion didn’t need to be fixed or do the same thing you did with Gordrakk; raise his cost so he is unplayable with certain other characters make him 12 so he is still competitive or just don’t change him.

The fact is Set 2 has a counter for almost every faction. Order has the obvious counters, Gordrakk has a counter to just kill you, God-King's Aspect can counter Skarbrand if it’s in front of Skarbrand. There are options. Best of One should not dictate how tournament play (Pitched 2 of 3) should be especially because in a best of one you may not draw what you need. There have been games even in Pitched with Skarbrand where I draw 1 ability and obviously I did not win. Gordrakk, because of Rallying Cry it doesn’t matter what he draws. It’s a problem because for 1 card I deploy two units (even on turn 1) and advance two quests (All: three quests), three quests, sorry, you’re right. That is where I think the problem needed to be addressed. They should not been able to deploy on a Wizard, or some sort of limitation for Rallying Cry – for example, Grot only and/or not the same unit.

Shawn: We all know what we want to see on it, we want to see it not progress quests.

Matt: The problem of Rallying Cry stems that it can deploy on Wizards & the same unit twice. I will give it the ability to progress three quests because it’s meant to be a clutch uncommon.

Osh: A lot of uncommon are broken, they are meant to be broken. Another major issue with Rallying Cry, as Kunnin' Grot Shaman shows I can continuously refill my field, and you’ll never kill me – you essentially have to kill me *3* times a turn. Starving Flesh Hounds is another example of a game breaking mechanic because it doesn’t trigger effects (like Orb of Immortality ). I think Skarbrand balanced out Chaos, because as Chaos you couldn’t win without hurting yourself. If your opponent took advantage of this or out heal your damage you can’t win. Gordrakk had the capability to beat everyone. If they did the same thing they did to Gordrakk and raised his cost he could be Chaos QQ, but wouldn’t be run the same way it is now.

Set 2 contains counters, for almost every faction. There are counters to Skarbrand already. Ranked (best of one) should not dictate how tournament play should be, and this is the problem with this change.

Osh

I think these changes needed to be addressed, but there are different ways to address them.

Matt

Matt: Skarbrand needed a seeing to. Whether it was a cost raise, or whether it was a tweak of his passive ability. Personally I feel his cost was fine, I feel more strongly that his damage should have been tweaked from the passive. 15 Health made it so relevant so it happened during the game and as a unique character it should happen during the game. If you have an ability on a unique character it should be used. 3 bonus damage made it a bit too relevant, maybe bringing it down you wouldn’t lose potency as much as you do at 10 health. Once you hit, there is not a deck that exists, actually I think you can do 10 with Bored2Death.

Osh: You can and heal while you do it.

Matt: That reinforces my point. Once you bring his ability down to 10 *health* the card becomes irrelevant. He’s a 9 cost quick questor that essentially has nothing.

 Osh: Yeah he becomes a blank card after that, you may be able to use it. There are a lot of variables. 10 Health is just too low.

Matt: 10 Health is too low! I agree he needed to be looked at. He needed to be hit in some way. As far as Stacking changes go. I don’t believe that Stacking was the way to hit it now. I think it’s great that they say Death is getting more Stacking units in the next set or better stacking units on the horizon. Although that doesn’t matter, you are still putting Death down to 2 or 3 viable decks in Ranked. Maybe 1 viable deck in Pitched. Death was in a horrendous place to begin with, because in Pitched every deck can deal with it, and in ranked every deck can deal with it.

This change continues to make Death the “whipping boy”, it does nothing to Gordrakk. It maybe weakens their unit game down, because you lose maybe Big Stabba Crew and Gore-Choppa Brute, but you can replace them with stuff like Savage Stikkas or Grot Slashas . They have the cards that make the stacking changes pretty much pointless, you just need to play a little different. You can use Rallying Cry to deploy your big stacking damage. I do not think these changes are unhealthy. Skarbrand and Gordrakk needed to be address – but they needed a different way to address it. Gordrakk’s heroic act is harder to maintain, there are less of a setup and less of a “booku” unit. It is a lot easier to do now because you are going to get Kunnin’ + Gordrakk decks that are stacking based and that’s going to be the game.

Then you are going to also have decks that use the non-stacking units running Gordrakk and Loudmouth with the opportunity to spin your bigger guys faster. There is going to be different decks in Destruction based off stacking changes, but these decks were already viable they just were not Gordrakk. The stacking change kind of does basically what they wanted to do with Skarbrand decks, because other Destruction decks are attractive; Gordrakk is attractive, Commando Green is attractive, Destruction Wizards are attractive.

Meanwhile Chaos is going to probably revert back to the old Chaos quick quest line up. I am going to go back to Skarbrand with the minimal change that I have to make with Valkia the Bloody . It’s essentially just going back to a weird quick quest (with Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury possibly) it’s your only viable deck, no matter who you are with. Chaos wizard is only viable, because there is an aggro Meta & you have Shield of Thorns which is amazing but was mainly a meme.

Osh: What they were trying to do with these changes is even the playing field across the board. What they did was nerf Death with the stacking again. They brought Chaos back down, but Gordrakk in my opinon has not changed. You switched out two maybe three guys you are running, but everything else is the same. Just swap Savage Stikkas for Gore-Choppa Brute and it’s essentially the same.

Matt: Exactly, that is my point. The stacking change brings down the power level of Gordrakk because you have to think about what you are playing, and now with Gordrakk you just have to wait some turns for damage, but the instant damage is gone.

Shawn: I am going to be the unpopular opinion here – stacking needed to change and it had nothing to do with Gordrakk, or maybe tangentially related to Gordrakk. You needed stacking to change, because it was screwing with the design of every new stacker going forward. Basically the issue you had with stacking, you would play down Waaagh! Chanter and Pouncing Wolf Rider , things that gave you bonus action. You would then have all these bonus actions and throw all your stackers onto the table on top of those things that gave you bonus actions. Now with the change, the things that gave bonus actions, especially in Destruction, they have an actual opportunity cost now. A unit (chanter) in a lane, you know that nothing else is going to go on that lane until it goes away somehow. That matters a lot.

I played Ogors obviously, and have played a few games against Destruction since the changes; Usually I would lose the turn before I could kill them, or vice versa but I can easily see them stumbling for that one or two crucial turns. That is what we all wanted for the format to slow down, just a couple of turns. There are things that powered primarily by Rallying Cry – which I feel should still be changed, maybe restricted to one per deck – it can still have those crazy turns where it can “nuke” you out of nowhere. I am okay with decks having power plays/turns, but Gordrakk was so consistent with it because it’s really efficient non-stacking units built for actions or damage had no opportunity cost to them.

It sucks Death is affected by this, but Death’s problem is that their stacking units are bad in general. They need more stacking units like a Brute Smashas equivalent, 2/2/x is the perfectly balanced stacking unit you want it’s really aggressive, does all its damage, and then gives you the chance to stack on top of it. Death doesn’t have that their only good first corner damage Risen – the Skeleton Warriors unit sucks as a base unit and seems meant to be on the top of the stack. Stacking could have been the way it was, but nobody was playing stacking in ranked, nothing to do with how good or bad the stacking rule was but everything to do with the fact that Death just does not have good enough stacking units. Same with Spirits, anyone who actually tried Spirits they are just too trash.

Brian: I tried to build Spirits. It’s just trash.

Matt: A lot of Spirits are not meant to be played separately, personally.

Shawn: Once again. A lot of this comes down to damage. They may eventually want to be played separately. Champions in general is very tribal in nature. Obviously the problem has been that so far Death has Risen, Spirits, Vampires, Mordants, Beasts, and Vehicles oh my. We keep saying we have to wait until next set, which sucks that is the case, but nerfing something that is bad already – you have to pull that pin eventually because it screws your ability to design good base units since they can be stacked upon and you want to account for a player using the momentum of stacking upon them.

Matt: I can admit that it opening the design space. You’ve made that argument pretty solidly.

Nerfing something <Death Stacking> that is bad already –
you have to pull that pin eventually because it screws your ability to design good base units since they can be stacked upon and you want to account for a player using the momentum of stacking upon them.

Shawn

Shawn: Last thing, Gordrakk might still have to be hit in the future. Personally, I am okay with its power level right now, it doesn’t feel as overbearing as Skarbrand ever felt. It’s definitely not where it was in set 1 but I think we all agree that’s just set 1. Maybe if we had Flesh to Stone in set 1. There are things we can use to counter Gordrakk a bit. It still may need to be looked at, or banned.

Matt: I have a feeling before it gets to a ban, Gordrakk & Skarbrand will just cycle out. *Please Note* PlayFusion has never mentioned the possibility of a rotation or sets cycling out at this time.

Shawn: Gordrakk from a design space issue does cause a problem anytime you make a new Orruk unit. You have to consider how strong it would be with Gordrakk. Specifically about Skarbrand – Skarbrand did need a change. I don’t care what anyone thinks even if you think it is fine and balanced. Psychologically the player base hated it, and needed a change. It mattered more to the health of the game that something fixed this issue. Even if they went out handing $10 to everyone saying, “be nice about it” I don’t care something needed to change to fix it.

Osh: All of their research is coming from the app. Is tournament play being accounted for this? Skarbrand isn’t always at the top, or brought to any tournaments and most of the time Gordrakk is. That issue is because of Rallying Cry.

Shawn: I agree, Rallying Cry still needs to be hit. As long as best of 1 (ranked) exists Skarbrand needed a change. Magic already came out with the data, they say that most people play best of one.

Osh: Counter point, they are not focusing their physical play on the App. A topped player who in Ranked is not being flown out to the U.K. Championships.

Shawn: They stated in Discord they may do that.

Osh:  Might that is not the current plan. The physical card game, they send massive amounts of product, they have reps in a bunch of states specifically for the physical game. Physical tournaments have the most prize support.

Shawn: Is Skarbrand still competitive in these tournaments?

Osh: I was the only person playing Skarbrand at our local tournaments (North East Circuit)

Shawn: Our data is too small for that.

Brian: (Summarized numbers of PAX) If you look at PAX – Gordrakk won obviously beating out all of Chaos QQ.

Osh: What that is saying:Chaos really needed something like Skarbrand to push them up. Order needed more help so it got more control.

Matt: The problem with Chaos is that there is no consistency. You need to flip Unrivalled Battle-Lust & Total Carnage in an aggressive Chaos deck. Your units alone are not enough to win you the game. This is a different point entirely.

Shawn: Going back to finish my point – increasing Skarbrand’s point does nothing. Maybe it means you wouldn’t be able to play a Wizard with it. It does nothing because most people just play x2 Bloodreaver Chieftain warrior builds and they are fine.

Jay: A lot of you mirrored what I wanted to say. There are some changes that needed to happen. I think Skarbrand needed to change in some way. The way in which they looked at Skarbrand & stacking in my opinion, was incorrect. So, to agree with Osh you don’t see many Skarbrand decks at top in physical play, probably because of the sideboard option. There are a lot of cards that people don’t consider as counters, because they mainly play ranked (a best of one). I would go onto further say I think a lot of people in ranked are not building their deck to deal with the top deck (Skarbrand) in ranked. If you are running a best of one, you play the Meta.

Unfortunately if you are playing competitively, you don’t always play the deck the way “you want”, you look for the card(s) that counters the Meta. You think I wanted to play Kunnin’ Grot Shaman in ranked? No, I would rather play my four warrior build that is more consistent overall (against each faction). I sucked it up, played Kunnin’ and have a 70% win ratio easily against Skarbrand. Kunnin’ effectively removes his passive from the game, and the deck becomes more dependent on winning with UBL or Total Carnage. Honestly, I think UBL is a bigger problem for Chaos. As Matt said, consistency is the problem with Chaos and that’s why Skarbrand is a bad idea for them. Their blessings are way too powerful.

Matt: They need to be that strong.

Jay: I agree because of how PlayFusion has built it as a team. When you make a character like Skarbrand, maybe you should have thought about the blessing. If PlayFusion continues to keep making sick blessings like UBL/Total Carnage then you can’t make a Skarbrand or Gordrakk for the same team. UBL makes it so you win in 2-4 turns, often even as soon as it rotates once. Chaos has a good amount of Champions that rotate quickly, and I am saying that’s fine, but it’s obvious they’re building them for blessing flip and they want them to be “swingy”, they want them to be the “Red Deck Wins”. And that is fine, but you can’t have a character like Skarbrand then.

Osh: Yea that’s why a lot of units hurt myself. It puts me in the situation that I NEED to pop the blessing or I will lose.

Jay: There is reason Magic stopped printing Lightning Bolt. They know that is a severely aggressive card. It’s too good.

Matt: It’s too good. It’s even an instant right? It can be put on Isochron Scepter. Even that is limited down. That is why I was saying that the health trigger didn’t need to be adjusted, it was the damage bonus. 1 Red – 2 Damage has happened.

Jay: Matt, I actually agree with you. The same should apply to Skarbrand, the damage is too good, maybe the damage should have been lowered. Maybe they should have made it more thematic to be just Daemon Abilities (if they had more Daemon Abilities).

Osh: Yeah that would mean that next set they got to put out a Daemon ability.

Jay: Yeah that is actually my next point. “Coming out in the next set” is not an acceptable rebuttal as to why it is okay to make a change now. All it means is that change is acceptable to make, when that next set comes out.

Matt: It is acceptable currently, only because we are within the first 4 sets. Everybody is like 4 sets make or break a TCG. You can look at MTG first few sets were Shivan Dragon everywhere. First three or four sets of Hearthstone, there were clear best decks. You don’t see variety until the 4th set came through, you won’t see good stuff and see things stabilize until then. We are hitting the peaks and valleys of each alliance, as they try to buff the alliances while at the same time are making the card pool that makes up a standard card pool. You don’t have a standard rotation until you have 3 or 4 sets, and can’t start cycling stuff out or tweaking the meta on passed information about the last set until you reach that cycle. The next set excuse can still work for 1 or 2 more sets, but if Death doesn’t work after that, that means nothing. Death is still getting beat into the ground. Chaos at least has the tools to survive the nerf. At least this Warband pack will support Death & Order. As everyone keeps saying, they are balancing around ranked when you balance around “best of 1” it’s going to be races of “Red deck wins”. You either get locked down until you lose, or you win through aggro too fast.

Jay: I don’t agree. There are plenty of players who would disagree with waiting until next set being an acceptable solution, and especially that a sacrifice was necessary simply because they were not as viable. There were players who were making Risen stacking decks that were right on the cusp of being relevant. Now PlayFusion just threw their chance of relevancy out the window. If you had focused on Rallying Cry as a Destruction solution; Risen stacking could improve in viability especially since they were dropping back Skarbrand and Gordrakk. Possibly Risen could move up the Tier list *like Aelves did*. Death has a lot of utility & tools like Damage Reduction; Crypt Shield Skeletons, Crypt Shield Black Knight which help against fast, low amounts of damage, while still also providing damage bonuses like Bloodthirster, but from a Wizard; Twisted Necromancer.

That is why I feel strongly that you could have changed Rallying Cry now and then push the change for stacking to the “next set”. They should have done that, update the rules to coincide with the release of set 3 because now the cards to help benefit the change for Death stacking are available. Meanwhile nerfing Rallying Cry at the moment, only effects unit heavy decks like Orruks & Grots with Stacking. Additionally, there are Destruction decks that don’t need Rallying Cry, like Shawn’s Ogor (Flame-Belching Firebelly ) doesn’t really depend on Rallying Cry.

I would be happier with these changes if they had said, “We looked at every power card for each faction, and decided to make the following changes”

Jay

Jay: Going back to Skarbrand. It was an incorrect way to go about it. Honestly I would concede the biggest problem with Skarbrand was that every deck you made in Chaos that did not have Skarbrand, a builder would often think “why not Skarbrand?” Every time I made a Chaos deck I would play it, and say “this would just be better WITH Skarbrand” . It is because they made his questing too fast, his passive to good, and his cost too low, but is the lack of diversity enough of a reason to nerf Skarbrand? If anything to me it means you need to make some better alternatives to Skarbrand.

Additionally, as Osh said earlier, there are cards that exist to counter Gordrakk and Skarbrand in the meta. Flesh to Stone & Shield of Thorns exists and serve as a counter to Gordrakk. Those cards are just not played enough to shift the meta. If you argue with Shield of Thorns and Flesh to Stone not being a counter to Gordrakk, you just have not played enough Gordrakk to see it happen. I will admit, the problem with using meta counters is trading consistency to deal with the meta but is that not how it should be?

Also, everyone is complaining about Gordrakk and Skarbrand as the “big bads”, but do you know what too much nerfs can lead to meta shift wise? I don’t know how many of you play against Stormcast regularly, but the control versions of Stormcast are starting to feel oppressive like old school land destruction decks. You literally sit with a full hand of stuff unable to do anything while you watch your opponent play a game. The stacking changes actually make it that Aelves can lock down a Gordrakk deck pretty easily. Pro Tip: Whenever you see a Waaagh! Chanter, lay out a Razorshell Harpoon Allopex infront of him. That Waaagh! Chanter will just stick around for 7 turns, with 3 of them not giving me any actions. You don’t have to worry about it getting stacked on either and eventually remove it since they have the option to play up to 6 great removal. Most of the time, an Aelf deck can win in 7 turns.

Shawn: Why is it okay for a deck that doesn’t have stacking to be locked down for 3 turns?

Jay: It’s not! That is my point. The change just impacts that deck more at the moment. If they continue to create cards that lock down like that, you’re going to really limit design space, and every game will be whoever can lock down their opponent first. Do I need to even mention how toxic a deck like Immortal Death is? I think this is because the changes are being analyzed through the App data, and people who have never played outside of the app. My biggest issue with the changes are two fold:

They are for both physical and ranked and they did not look at each faction equally. The ability to tap a sideboard to slide in up to 9 cards to deal with a meta or issue make a very different experience as well as require a different solution. Death and Order probably benefit the most from the Pitched Formats, while Chaos and Destruction still kind of can only “beat your face in.”

Osh: My sideboard on Chaos, which was basically null, was just to deal with Jay. Unfortunately it didn’t work.

Jay: I would be happier with these changes if they had said, “We looked at every power card for each faction, and decided to make the follow changes:” <Like Hearthstone did recently for the past 2 nerfs, nerfing a handful of cards to improve/shift the meta; we talked about Rallying Cry more, which was looked at by PlayFusion but ultimately decided wasn’t as important as a stacking change and I moved it along to the next question>

What do you think are going to be the top decks now?

Brian: Digital: Destruction, probably Gordrakk & maybe Firebelly. Maybe Order Aelves.
Physical: I think it’s a toss up. I am going to say King Gordrakk again, I don’t believe it will change. I don’t think Death will get anywhere unless its ThunderPals D piloting it, that’s my opinion. (D, he’s calling you out bro)

Osh: Digital: Gordrakk. They have ways to go through most of their deck so they don’t get many bad draws. Probably not bad in any format. For Physical: Order (Aelves or Stormcast) above everything else, then Destro. Chaos and Death tied for last.

Brian: You think Chaos will become third fiddle with this nerf instead of first fiddle?

Osh: It was never first, and yes because too many answers exists in set 2 and those were not looked at it.

Matt: Pitched will be Order mostly Vorrus and Gordrakk. They have the easier to pilot deck <we collectively disagreed & stated Order requires a methodical player>. It does not take much to deny lanes. I am not saying there is a specific pilot for Order, you need the mindset that you are not playing a short game. The best Order I have seen was at the North East Circuit (ThunderPals Zanniati is who he referenced), it was like watching Magic. Order is complicated because you need knowledge of the match ups. Chaos and Destro just do their thing, and you die.

As far as Ranked — whoever deals damage the fastest so Gordrakk or Aelves. Mostly just retooling of old decks.

Shawn: As the guy who wrote the tier list before, i should have opinions? For Ranked: I think Gordrakk, Vorrus, Aelves, Mordant Midrange decks will end coming out really well. I think Skarbrand drops to Tier 2, not dumpstered but its an aggressive deck that can dump damage, so deal with it. I expect that you’ll find games where you are at 12 and end up using Daemonic Fury to then kill them. Mordant Midrange is what I am most interested to see. Aelves will be a very aggressive here’s a bunch of damage, so deal with it. Unfortunately, Firebelly is too inconsistent to be Tier 1.

As for Pitched, I think the stacking changes make Vorrus and Gordrakk even, and Aelves in some way because they benefit from Order’s flexibility. For Skarbrand I think the deck that will make it’s way in Ranked or maybe Pitched, will be one that has Shield of Thorns to deal with Vorrus and Gordrakk. In general the Tier 1 list gets closer to the Tier 2 list! I hope I am wrong about Firebelly.

Jay: Based upon what I am seeing in Ranked both Aelf/Stormcast or Aelf decks are going to be Tier 1, along with Firebelly, Gordrakk, probably Kunnin’ builds because with the changes it’s not really worth it playing Pouncing Wolf Rider. Vorrus probably gets pushed to Tier 2, because a lot of the new builds use spells, and that’s an issue for Vorrus. You guys also said it before healing. I believe healing is a lot stronger now because of these changes.

You are going to see decks like Mordant Midrange and Immortal Death who play healing win a lot more, because it will be harder to burst them down, but they will be uncommon because they take too long. Chaos QQ will always be Tier 2 because no matter what a UBL flip is game.
For Pitched i think the Aelf/Stormcast build will be really strong there, because it’s a healthy combo of lane control and damage. Order also benefits greatly from sideboards.

What do you want to see in the future sets?

Brian: SKAVEN.

Osh: I like damage yourself rewards. If you have X health do this, Y health do this Z health do this. Could have done that for Skarbrand < -_- I imagined he made this face> Jay banned from playing Gordrakk in tournaments. Just saying what I want to see.

Matt: Risen stacking. Chaos with more Consistency. Tribes in Chaosmay give more consistency.

Shawn: Risen stacking. Mid range Chaos.

Jay: I would like to see more cards specifically targeting factions. For example, more Daemon abilities. Oh and nekkid flaming dwarves.

In Closing…

Brian: PlayFusion has been more active with their community physical or digital like other games I have had experience with. A specific card game comes to mind; VS2PCG which was horrible. They are more open to feedback, I have had conversations with Leigh, they see the feedback, they know we love this game and that is why we talk about it. I really do appreciate it what they do. I may sound like I am kissing their butt, but they deserve it they are putting out an amazing game.

Osh: We all have our reasons for what we want, and my reasons are better than all of yours, just kidding. <did Jay insert that just kidding or did Osh say it, you decide reader>. With PlayFusion being so interactive with their physical card community, I think PlayFusion has a better opportunity to test changes before they go live in Tournaments. There is a tournament in the North East Circuit in February, and I need to win that. I love PlayFusion because they take care of the physical and digital communities, I am so glad this game is here.

Matt: We have to globally acknowledge, while being critical of PlayFusion’s choices, we do accept the changes.  Mainly because they have the data and we are looking at it through our experience on the other side of a wall. We can’t know what they have planned or what is going on, or what is coming the way they do. There is a lot of points we brought up here, but they can immediately be addressed from the Warband pack. There are things that may happen right around the corner that we are not privy too. All we know is that good things are coming, and that PlayFusion always has the best interest for the game at heart, because they don’t want to see it fail, they want to see it succeed. They are really transparent. I have not seem much transparency in many current games because I do not know any other games that have such active members of a company that interacts with community.

Shawn: Anyone who actually interacts can tell PlayFusion cares. That sounds kind of dismissive, in the gaming world the fact they care even a little bit, they even get down in the muck with us, they hash it out with us, even if the responses are negativity, they take it in stride. The people that are willing to give an open discussion with them, they will listen. We can debate how they expressed the change for the community whether they are the changes we imagined/wanted. They did them because they care, and the reaction has been largely positive. I had not heard many who stated this hasn’t changed anything. Kudos to them for going out of their way to make this game the one we want to play.

Jay: Pretty much I think PlayFusion is handling it well, being Onslaught is the second release for this game. I think the Exemplar Program & Rewards are probably one of the best things I have seen from a company. Champions on Switch & PC great news! Also the fact that someone can read the Organized Play Info, and be disappointed, surprised me. Especially since they pretty much said, we are doing exactly what Magic did with FNM, you can host locals and get points, you have invitational, championships, etc. I think a lot of people are just looking for issues. My experience as Matt said is different because I don’t have the data that PlayFusion has, but based on my experiences, some of these changes could have waited. They are not the best solution but they are a solution at the moment. PlayFusion continues to be a great bunch of people. I enjoy talking with them on Discord, but at the same time wish there was more than Discord. Discord is where you get all the good stuff right now, if you happen to catch it at the time. Anyime I caught something juicy I would often share it to Facebook and people would be blown away. At the same time, they don’t have content providers really (which we are working on), but a community site sponsored by PlayFusion and GW, similar to Beast of War but solely for WHAOSC is long overdue. Maybe some additional help from PF, like a Community Highlights section can help (mind you this has been discussed in Discord), but we need to strike while the Iron is hot.

Author: jscardino1207

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